Canadia, sounds like we are having 2 different conversations. One about streaming and one about the value of crappy pitchers. I have no problem with trying to resolve both issues.
As usual, in a league with 20 owners we have only heard from 5 or 6 on this matter. I have no idea if anybody else has any interest in this or not.
Bona
The following arms are available, along with Roberts, Soriano, Kouzmanoff, Crede. Looking to improve at SS and SP. If anyopne is interested hit me up on AIM at cdoggjoy or e-mail me at charsupv@yahoo.com.
Kevin 26Gregg P Cubs 2008-12-06
Mike 27Gonzalez P Braves 2008-12-06
Kyle 29McClellan P Cardinals 2008-12-06
Renyel 30Pinto P Marlins 2008-12-06
Randy 31Wolf P Astros 2008-12-06
Garrett 32Olson P Orioles 2008-12-06
Freddy 33Garcia P Tigers 2008-12-06
Jesse 34Litsch P Blue Jays 2008-12-06
Chris 35Lambert P Tigers 2008-12-06
Chad 37Cordero P Nationals 2008-12-06
Yusmeiro 38Petit P Diamondbacks 2008-12-06
Joe 39Crede 3B White Sox 2008-12-06
Dallas 40McPherson 3B Marlins 2008-12-06
Carlos 41Guillen-1B/3B 1B Tigers 2008-12-26
Kevin 42Kouzmanoff 3B Padres 2009-01-06
The Killer Canadia
Yeah, we have different objectives, I am more interested in cracking down on streaming. With your rule streaming would actually become an even BETTER strategy. I also don't think that Yahoo allows for a limit on the number of pitchers you can own, although I could be wrong, but I've never seen a similar option for other sports...
While my suggestion may be technically unenforceable, the penalty could be the stripping of a 1st round draft pick, which combined with the honour system I think would be adequate.
Pittsburgh Potholes
Another approach that might achieve the same objectives.....a limit on the number of pitchers you can roster. I'm almost certain Yahoo allows this. We can phase this in as well. No limit in 2009. Something like a limit of 14 pitchers in 2010, then a limit of 12 or 11 pitchers in 2011. Be honest, look at your roster and tell me it wouldn't be easy to get down to 12 pitchers right now. And you'd have until 2011 to do it.
AtlBraves2006
I was wondering the same thing. I don't seem to recall seeing him online lately...where is our fearless leader in this hour of need?
The Killer Canadia
So I was talking to Shocker on AIM and he suggested I post this as a potential alternative rule:
"Any SP added out of FA must be benched for their first start"
In my opinion, this would basically end streaming, which is a major reason Pitt's proposal has gotten support and something which I would suggest is widely desired. Pitt's rule is intriguing but I find it fundamentally problematic because players have already been traded under the current value system, and even 1-year of warning won't let people get their trades back. The system is flawed, but its unfair to make a change like this mid-dynasty IMO. Anyhow, thoughts on this suggestion?
Team Shocker
I like the second approach with the limits
Pittsburgh Potholes
Canadia - Good idea, but problem is, that's a rule that is unenforceable. And it doesn't address my primary concern which has been discussed ad nauseum.
The innings limit can be fazed in over a couple of seasons. No limit in 2009. Very unrestrictive limit in 2010, and then in 2011 we get to the long range limit. 3 years is a lifetime in fantasy baseball. If your team is still smarting from overpaying for Hideki Kuroda in 2011 or even 2010, then I'm not sure what to say.
Ohio is strangely and perhaps tellingly absent from the debate. Anyone seen him?
AtlBraves2006
Pitt....If thats the goal then fine. Like I said I am for this because it eases any worries about streaming. I was under the impression the goal was to lower the value of pitching. If making mid to back end guys obtainable is the goal...GREAT! I really think its fine and support that kind of rule for the reason of streaming and think this is one of the possible ways to do so.
On another note, Dice K is on the table. Im in talks with a couple guys and am close on both counts, so if you are interested please email me asap or IM me. Im interested in offense. Maybe a big bat and an SP to slide into the back of my rotation to replace Dice K or a bat and a closer. Please make a fair offer because Im going to make a decision soon and dont plan on leveraging offers or dragging this out any longer than I have to. Thanks
-Atl
Pittsburgh Potholes
I think some folks might misunderstand my objective. In response to post 63, I have no problem at all with the values placed on top line pitching. Premium players should have a premium. The Peavys and Santanas of the world should be ridiculously high priced. And really, do you think it's even possible that they could become more valuable than they are now? Even if they did, I have no problem with it.
My problem is with the value of mid-range and back-end starters. I'm not going to name players because that will make it seem like I am calling out owners, but I think you know the types of pitchers I am talking about. When a 180 inning, 4.2 era guy costs a premium hitter, then things are skewed. Hell, try even trading a mid-range hitter for a 150 inning, 5.0 era guy. You can't do it.
In conclusion (lol), you suggest that top-end starting and relief pitching will become more valuable, while back-end guys are more obtainable. Well, that's exactly the goal!
The Rip
Looking for a SS (upgrade over Felipe Lopez). These guys are available:
Fred Lewis
Ryan Shealy
Juan Pierre
Aaron Cunningham
Ivan Rodriguez
Tim Wakefield
Jason Schmidt
Bartolo Colon
Damaso Marte
All prospects not named McCutchen and all picks.
Calvindawg2-AIM
The Killer Canadia
I'm fine with addressing the issue of streaming but I think this is probably best done individually - which is not difficult to do. I agree with Atlanta this really does not make pitching cheaper.
AtlBraves2006
An Innings limit would solve the streaming issue. And I like that. Streaming has been legal and at times very advisable in the last couple years but has been a nuisance for us all to deal with. This essentially ends most streaming.
It will be nice to see playoff teams decided based on record and merit and not who had the best week streaming 10 additional starts over a week or two ya know. So for that reason I am in favor of a realistic and not unbearably strict innings limit. However....I just doubt this makes pitching as a whole all that much cheaper. Front-line pitching gets more pricey, top end bullpen arms are more valuable, while middle to back of rotation pitching is more obtainable....how much do we really benefit from all that? I really don't know...just don't think this is going to have quite the miraculous positive effect people may expect
Team Shocker
I am good either way I think we could self impose a streaming rule possibly like a max moves in a week or something but I know this leauge will adjust to whatever everyone votes on
The Rip
Its not about being strong-armed, it's about certain GMs attempting to strong-arm in every trade attempt. If you ALWAYS think you're guy is twice as valuable as the guy you're going after, you'll never get anything accomplished.
You have to expect those you contact to think as highly about their guys as you do about yours. To you it may be outrageous, but to them it may be legit and fair.
Natick Redmen
drop: Matt Bush
add : chad tracy C Rangers
The Rip
I honestly think some people over-value their players in an attempt to strong arm other GMs.
If you have 3 arms and a nice bullpen, you'll be fine, IMO.
Pittsburgh Potholes
If you allow yourself to be 'strong-armed' (whatever that means) by another team, blame only yourself.
When EVERY team asks for ridiculous returns for EVERY starting pitcher, then something systemic is wrong.
The Rip
I think we should leave the league settings as is.
As I showed in my first year in the league, pitching is not that necessary to win here. Of course I did not win the title, but I was damn close without any major pitching.
Bona
It's not about winning the title or being "damn close.". It's about the ridiculous price of pitching. Can anyone really explain why it costs so much to get a nice arm here?
AtlBraves2006
Im fine with that
-Atl
The Killer Canadia
Canadia Block:
Derrek Lee
Johnny Damon (in deal for CF upgrade)
Jermaine Dye
Shin Soo-Choo
Coco Crisp
Wandy Rodriguez
Brad Penny
Gil Meche
Todd Wellemeyer
Glen Perkins
other pitching not named Webb, Lowe or Nolasco
looking for starting pitching, offensive upgrades, or a closer
Bona
I am in favor of pitts proposal, as well. The only problem I see with it is this. While it will lower the value on #3-#5 starting pitchers, it will make the aces that much more valuable. Therefore certain teams who have swindled a plethora of great arms, will have that much more of an advantage.
High Octane
I'm open to Pitt's idea. It's well thought out and plausible.
High Octane's Hot Stove trade block:
1B/3B Hank Blalock
2B Alexi Casilla
3B Eric Chavez
LF/1B Josh Willingham
LF/RF Gary Sheffield
CF Michael Bourn
SP Ian Kennedy
SP Jorge Campillo
SP Micah Owings
SP Pedro Martinez
RP/CL Fernando Rodney
RP J.J. Putz
RP Jason Motte
Prospects not named Porcello
Looking for SP, CL, a long-term LF, possibly a 2B, pitching and prospects/draft picks.
Spring training is only about 5 weeks away. Let's fire up the Hot Stove!
AIM: targeese
Email: targeese@yahoo.com
The Killer Canadia
I agree with Bona in that respect. Furthermore, teams who have overpaid for#3-5 starters will be unable to recoup their losses, even with notice... Not to say the current system isnt problematic or that I have my own solution...
Funky Bunch
I would also be open to Pitt's idea. As long as the innings cap is plausible.
Bona
Kouzmanoff, crede, wolf, mcpherson, cust and more are available for trade. Looking for just about everything besides draft picks.
Pittsburgh Potholes
Just to make a clarification, and I don't even know if Yahoo allows this, but I think the innings limit should be a weekly maximum. If we institute a season maximum, you end up magnifying the already unbalanced schedule.
Again, if a weekly innings cap is possible, I think it would be a great idea. And I'm in total favor of a reasonable cap. We can use the 2009 season as a guide to what is reasonable.
Pittsburgh Potholes
I have a proposal to make...it is my opinion that the value of pitching is really hurting this league. Of course, that is my opinion, but I know that at least a couple other people feel the same way. Really, I'm starting to lose interest in this league because the relative value of pitching has gotten so out of whack that it has become overly difficult to churn a roster.
Now, I think there is nothing wrong with a league that makes it difficult to improve your team. I think it's a good thing actually. However, when #4 and #5 starting pitchers can't even be discussed in trades unless major offensive names are involved...well, let's just say I think an adjustment is warranted.
Therefore I propose that, starting in the 2010 season, we implement an innings cap. This would alleviate the 2 biggest complaints we have heard the last couple of years.
First, it would help to bring the value of pitchers down to a more reasonable level since it wouldn't be as advantageous to hoard SP. This would open up the trading market and provide a breath of fresh air IMHO.
Second, it would make the 'free agent pitcher of the day' strategy much much less attractive as you would need to conserve your innings rather than just trying to stockpile K's/W's/H's with a bunch of scrub pickups in order to squeeze another point out of your weekly matchup.
I propose we put the change in for 2010 as it gives everyone a fair chance to prepare for the rule change. I don't think the change would be dramatic or unfair. Since such a small change would help alleviate the 2 biggest problems (as I see them) I think it's a no-brainer.
So...what say you???
Bona
Just wanted to wish the league Merry Christmas, before I put all the money, I mean gifts under the tree for the kids. Happy Hollidays guys. Hope everyone has a blessed week.
AtlBraves2006
Im looking for 2 things:
1) a 2nd baseman. I have Kaz Matsui who the last two years has been pretty productive, despite Pitt's prognostications of a .191 batting average. However hes 33 years old and is known for a leaky butthole...so if you have a long term 2b option i might like, PLEASE shoot me an email or run it by me somehow
2) Id like to move up in the 1st round. Im currently in the 14 slot. Id like to move up in the the 5-11 range. If anyone is interested in moving back a couple slots, and doesnt think they need David Wright to fall back 5 picks in a rookie draft...please email me and list some of the things you might want to make it happen. I would greatly appreciate that.
Happy Holidays to you all , and looking forward to a successful Year 7 of the league!
Team Shocker
I am looking to add some pop to my lineup as well as a solid MLB arm.
Cano, Alderson, Freddie Freeman on the block ofr the right price.
mb0132@attt.com
Team Shocker
I am looking to add some pop to my lineup as well as a solid MLB arm.
Cano, Alderson, Freddie Freeman on the block ofr the right price.
mb0132@attt.com
Bona
Well, I've gotten a lot of interest so here they are. Verlander and Lee are available. I'll be looking for an infield full of 40 home run guys out of Verlander and and RF accompanied by half of BA's top 15 out of Lee. On a slightly less serious note, I will move these guys and probably more fairly than anyone else would. That said, I will require quality over quantity. Not looking for a bunch of maybies. I'd like to upgrade at 2B, 3B, SS, RF and UTIL. As always, offers can be sent to cdoggjoy on AIM or charsupv@yahoo.com.
Bona
Players on more than one roster. This is because some managers haven't updated their rosters fromt he end of the seasons, yet. Chiefs, Pinstripes and Hybrid, are three that I know of.
Bona
Team Bona's updated trade block
Ryan Howard
Brian Roberts
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Jack Cust
Bengie Molina
Any pitcher not named Verlander.
Offers can be sent to charsupv@yahoo.com or cdoggjoy on AIM.
Positions I would be looking for.
Wanting to upgrade at 3B, SS, Util. If I move Howard, I WILL need a lesser 1B returned in the deal. Starting pitching is always welcomed, but I refuse the pay to ridiculous premium that this league carries, so probably not a good idea to try, unless you're willing to take a fair value for your arm, in return.
AtlBraves2006
Looking to move into the First Round from the beginning of the 2nd round. Also looking for a long term 2nd base option so if you might have something let me know
Serenity
there's more than one occurrence of a player being listed on two different rosters. ya'll might want to check out your teams. for instance, kevin kouzmanoff is on two rosters.
Pittsburgh Potholes
Need SP.
top prospects available. would trade one or all in the same deal.
villalona, darvish, laporta, triunfel, montero, latos, you can see the list.
burrell, iannetta, doumit available on major league roster.
Bona
Can someone explain to me why the hell there is such a ridiculous, premium on pitching. It's stupid that a 2nd tier arm costs an elite offensive player, or more. It is going to end up being the ruin of the league.
Serenity
i am in the market for a 3b. i've got chips.
Bona
I have an abundance at 3B. If anyone needs one, feel free to hit me up.
McPherson
Crede
Atkins
Kouzmanoff
Also have the following on the block
Randy Wolf
Cliff Lee
Yusmeiro Petit
Garrett Olson
Jack Cust
Salomon Torres
Kevin Gregg
Mike Gonzalez
Kyle McClellan
Don't have many needs, but would like to upgrade at SS and UTIL. If there's any interest, email or aim will work.
Team Shocker
CC to NYY what an ealry Christmas present
Bona
Team Bona is looking for a power bat, starting pitching, nice prospects and high picks. Hit me up at charsupv@yahoo.com or on AIM (which should go to my blackberry).
Serenity
Serenity adds Chris Nelson, 2b, Rockies, and drops Charlie Zink
Team Shocker
Looking for a first hit me up on e-mail mb0132@att.com or Tabasco086@aol.com
AtlBraves2006
Orlando Cabrera is OTB. I believe you know how to reach me lol.
Ohiopyle Biketrail
Yes Canadia Junichi Tazawa, Nippon Oil, is ineligible to be added to your prospect list. That is not considered a professional team.
Ohiopyle Biketrail
REDMEN
1) Tim Federowicz is a 2008 draftee and therefore cannot be added to your prospect list.
2) Please post your additions and deletions from your prospect list in the forum on Potholes website.
Thank you.
Serenity
i no longer have any of my four 1st round draft picks from a few years ago. gone are diamond, niemann, einertson, and as of 1 minute ago, goodbye nelson.
serenity drops chris nelson and adds brad bergeson, sp, bal